NTSMS - Non Therion Society Members Society

Main Forum => About Therion => Topic started by: Tzar-0 on December 11, 2004, 12:28:27 pm

Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Tzar-0 on December 11, 2004, 12:28:27 pm
As most of us know , Christopher is a member of this sect....and I've read some informations about them in their website : http://www.dragonrouge.net/ (http://www.dragonrouge.net/)

But I would like to know...where does it come from ? I mean does this sect exist since a lot of time? and why is it called Dragon Rouge ?

I know there's a book which is called "dragon Rouge" too and that there was a sect in Russia which was called like that too in 1933-34. (actualy I've found this info just on one french website (http://www.google.fr/search?q=cache:_r-4P9PeCHsJ:www.ihtp.cnrs.fr/dossier_soviet_paysans/camp_sov_1934.html+dragon+rouge+secte+&hl=fr) )

well....what is your opinion about that and can you answer my questions ?
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Markus on December 11, 2004, 01:22:37 pm
Hi Tzar-O,

this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Rouge) should answer most of your questions. DR, who prefer to call themselves an order, not a sect, was founded by the invisible Therion band member, Thomas Karlsson. As far as I know he is a close friend of Chris, and Chris is among the leading members of DR.

"Dragon rouge" is simply French for "Red dragon", apparently a central symbol of DR and a central motive of Therion lyrics.

Cheers!

Markus
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Tzar-0 on December 11, 2004, 01:38:52 pm
Quote
"Dragon rouge" is simply French for "Red dragon"

hehe yes, you are right but I did already know that because french is my language  ^_^

EDIT by Markus: Sorry, I clicked the wrong button and accidentally edited your posting instead of replying to it. I have now deleted my parts again but couldn´t restore the whole content, sorry. (I think what got lost was your remark that the link didn´t work.)

The link above should work now, at least.
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: stay heavy on December 11, 2004, 03:29:44 pm
Dragon rouge is a young association officially since 1989-1990,founded by 5 young magicians,among i am pretty sure one of them is Christofer Johnsson,and the main founder is Thomas Karlsson.
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Tzar-0 on December 11, 2004, 03:36:06 pm
ok ok

...and why the name "Dragon Rouge" ?
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Luth on December 11, 2004, 04:40:28 pm
Hi Markus!

Quote
DR, who prefer to call themselves an order, not a sect, was founded by the invisible Therion band member, Thomas Karlsson. As far as I know he is a close friend of Chris, and Chris is among the leading members of DR.
[snapback]1315[/snapback]

I suppose that it's hard to difference between a "sect" and an "order", and all depends in the point of view. About Chris maybe being one of the leading members of DG, I had no idea :o . But I knew he is closed involved in this...

Luth
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Ereshkigal on December 11, 2004, 09:11:24 pm
Quote
ok ok

...and why the name "Dragon Rouge" ?
[snapback]1321[/snapback]

I am not sure if I am inventing now, but as I have read some stuff about dragons, dragons are all different according to their colors.

For example:
White dragons, the most noble ones
Black Dragons, attacked innocents
Green Dragons, smart
And Red dragons I read, that they can evil, but not as evil as the black ones.

Now, I am not sure about this so someone please correct me if I am mistaken. :blush:

Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Luth on December 13, 2004, 10:10:02 am
It can be interessant the main page of DR, Dragon Rouge (http://www.dragonrouge.net), already given (for lazyiest people I insert the link again :P )

This web is written in some languages, english and spanish for instance. Specially interessant is the "philosophy" page: I've discovered a lot of different philosophies like Plato, Tao...

Maybe it can help us a little to understand DR, although main information is not shown, as all closed order (or sect? I cannot judge).

PS. I know that first post gave some information about this... but I've gone now to DR main page...
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Markus on December 13, 2004, 02:44:48 pm
Hi Ereshkigal,

I don't think there's such a classification of coloured dragons behind the symbol of the red dragon. I would say the colour simply emphasizes the meaning of the dragon as vivid force. At least that's how I understood the DR web pages (though it's a while ago that I last visited them) and Therion lyrics.

About the question "order or sect?" : I think that depends of your definition of the word "sect". Originally it means something like "small religious group". This is a very neutral sense and surely applies to DR. However, today this term  is often used in the sense of "small religious or pseudo-religious group that tries to deprive its members of important freedoms and rights for a financial gain or a gain of power for the group leaders".  Since none of us has any insights into DR we can't judge this point.

Cheers!

Markus
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: HellWraith on December 18, 2004, 02:59:50 am
Heya!

Dragon Rouge... it's really interesting, and by moments I feel like joining... but then... ahm.. dunno. Does someone know what the latin sentence means: "Ordo Draconis et art amantis" or something like that?!?!

And yes... dragon classification in colors and evilness I think only happens in Dungeons&Dragons  :P
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Markus on December 18, 2004, 12:24:59 pm
Hi HellWraith,

if my (virtually non-existing) Latin knowledge and my google abilities don´t beguiole me, then "Ordo Draconis et Atri Adamantas" means "Order of the Dragon and of the Diamond Hall". But beware, I might be wrong!

Cheers!

Markus
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Tzar-0 on December 18, 2004, 03:42:42 pm
Quote
Hi HellWraith,

if my (virtually non-existing) Latin knowledge and my google abilities don´t beguiole me, then "Ordo Draconis et Atri Adamantas" means "Order of the Dragon and of the Diamond Hall". But beware, I might be wrong!

Cheers!

Markus
[snapback]1477[/snapback]

Hi,

mmm I think it is "Order of the Dragon and of the dark(or black) Diamond". But I'm not sure of what I'm saying  because I haven't translate latin for a long time so maybe I'm making a mistake with the "variations" or with fhe "case" (not sure with those words in english but in french we say : "déclinaisons" et "cas"). Anyway a song of Therion is named Black Diamond so perhaps I'm right.

atri comes from ater,atra,atrum and means dark, black, ugly, bad....well my dictionnary gives me lot of words.
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Markus on December 19, 2004, 02:29:21 am
Hi Tzar-O,

you´re right. "Black diamond" obviously makes sense as the Black Diamond is an important symbol in DR and also appears in Therion lyrics at least once. And indeed "atrium" means "hall" (that´s what I found first)  but "atra" means "black", so the whole would translate as "Order of the Dragon and of the Black Diamond".

Cheers!

Markus
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: HellWraith on December 20, 2004, 09:10:34 pm
Heya!!

Thx Markus and Tzar-0... so... Ordo Draconis et Arti Adamantis=Order of the Dragon and of the Black Diamond... well ppl, thank you!!!
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Wyndrake on March 09, 2005, 03:41:39 am
Hello all!

As a member of Dragon Rouge, I understand the red dragon to represent magick power. The dragon is symbolic of Kundalini force. Red is the color of magick.

I hope that helps!

HDHM!
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Ereshkigal on March 09, 2005, 03:56:46 am
Kundalini force? We wanna know more  ^_^
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: stay heavy on March 09, 2005, 05:35:16 am
kundalini yoga,it is a kind of yoga that awakes the latent inner force and uncoiled it from the foot to where the kundalini melts together with the energy zone Sahasrara above the head and it is considered in the left hand path,I practice it and it is really a good provider of strenght.
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Luth on March 09, 2005, 09:41:05 am
The hidden side of Stay!!

How is it? I mean... I've never practised ioga, but it seems to me really interessant. Can you give more details?
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Ereshkigal on March 09, 2005, 02:04:17 pm
Ppl practising any kind of yoga look so relaxed, so unstressed...I envy that *sighs*

Tell us more Stay  :)
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: stay heavy on March 10, 2005, 06:45:14 pm
Hi Eresh!,try with any kind of yoga,and due to my job I think it is necessary,I need to release some pressure from time to time  so....I hope You are doing the same,stay heavy!!!
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Tzar-0 on September 17, 2005, 10:40:51 pm
Hello guys and girls,

I have noticed that Dragon Rouge has improved their website.

maybe it is so since a long time and I missed something or maybe not.

but I have the impression that they added some new things (images and explainations)

http://www.dragonrouge.net/ (http://www.dragonrouge.net/)

I haven't read yet, but maybe some of you will find it interesting.


ps: when I look again at this thread...wow what a long discution just about the Ordo Draconis et Atri Adamantas :D :P
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: deathdancer on September 18, 2005, 11:59:16 am
Their site was always cool
Title: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: TheOFFman on September 18, 2005, 04:05:21 pm
I'll have to check their page.
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: lavaniegosII on November 27, 2006, 06:41:11 pm
As most of us know , Christopher is a member of this sect....and I've read some informations about them in their website : http://www.dragonrouge.net/ (http://www.dragonrouge.net/)

But I would like to know...where does it come from ? I mean does this sect exist since a lot of time? and why is it called Dragon Rouge ?

I know there's a book which is called "dragon Rouge" too and that there was a sect in Russia which was called like that too in 1933-34. (actualy I've found this info just on one french website (http://www.google.fr/search?q=cache:_r-4P9PeCHsJ:www.ihtp.cnrs.fr/dossier_soviet_paysans/camp_sov_1934.html+dragon+rouge+secte+&hl=fr) )

well....what is your opinion about that and can you answer my questions ?

It is or it was a grimoire of black magic  from the 16 century.
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: luisesteban on January 31, 2007, 04:18:01 am
Uhh I check the website and is pretty cool....sounds interesting but for subcritions they don't accept pay with credit card o something like that....only with euro checks or something like that I can't remember very well in this moment....but....why?
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Lucy on January 31, 2007, 09:30:41 am
Well, I checked the site again and as I see, you can pay with credit card. Check this page: http://www.dragonrouge.net/join/inscription.php
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: luisesteban on January 31, 2007, 09:09:58 pm
Well, I checked the site again and as I see, you can pay with credit card. Check this page: http://www.dragonrouge.net/join/inscription.php


Hehehe....then I'm a dump for don't read.....thank you very much
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: IronCretin on April 14, 2007, 10:41:28 am
Someone asked why they picked the Red Dragon as their symbol/namesake:

From the official site:
      
"What does Dragon Rouge mean?

Dragon Rouge means "red dragon" in French. The French name Dragon Rouge corresponds to an old alchemistic brotherhood that carried this name. Dragon Rouge is also one of the most interesting and famous books of the black arts, the great grimoire, Le Grand Grimoire, which is called Le Dragon Rouge. Dragon Rouge is using magical systems from all over the world but are mainly focused on the European Tradition.

What does the Red Dragon represent?

The Red Dragon is a mythological entity which exists in all times and cultures. The Dragon can be viewed as a winged serpent. From the perspective of the history of religions the serpent is a symbol of the earth and the underworld. The eagle (and birds in general) are symbols of the heavens. The dragon is a unity of these two fundamental principles. The Dragon is a picture of the Hermetic principle "That which is below is like that which is above and that which is above is like that which is below". In China the dragon is a symbol of Tao, that which is beyond all terms and all polarities (Yin and Yang) but also is the force behind all. The Dragon represents the unknown and the hidden energy in man and in nature. The word dragon comes from the Greek verb derkein which means "to see". The Dragon is the principle of clear seeing: the ability to see things in a new light as they really are, beyond all illusions. For this reason the dragon has great wisdom and power in the myths. The wisdom of the dragon is symbolized by the treasure it guards or the pearl that the dragon carries in his mouth. To find this wisdom and knowledge man must search in his/her inner aspects and in the unknown. In Yoga the dragon is called the Kundalini, the force that is hidden inside man. The Draconian path strives to make this unconscious force and knowledge conscious. "A picture says more than a thousand words" and the symbol of the dragon and the myths about it carries information about how the unconscious can become conscious and how man can evolve.

The colour red has always been connected to magic and force. The red colour belongs to blood, heat and the pulse. In Nordic magic objects were magically loaded with energy by colouring it red, often with blood. Words like the German Zauber or the English sorcery come from the old Norse word teufer which means "to colour red".

The red dragon is a symbol of primal forces that the magician can awake and use in his/her magical work. In the Bible the red dragon is connected to Satan and the fallen angels. These are mythologically giving man the knowledge and the force to reach divinity."

Hope that helped, if you haven't found the answer already.

~The (Belated) Cretin~
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Thagirion on June 29, 2007, 07:23:08 pm
Psss well, i´m going to say, that, Dragon Rouge it´s a brotherhood, who wants to awake the magic arts... Starting with the fact that the human has so much slept qualities, we just use a % of our breain, i guess 15% and in some case about 20... Well, i don´t know if DR create the magic things, rituals etc... What i´m sure it´s that there are so much people with so much knowledge about some magic things of some cultures, for example, there are cultures who practice the healing with hands and energy, others the way to change their form, and things like that... I thing, and it´s just my apreciation... That DR Try tu put all that wisdom toguether, to awake the 7 gates in the body, and to open the 7 secrets, and maybe that the human start to use all the qualities... That´s my idea..

As a member i can say that i found it very interesting, and pretty nice way to lear what we want and in the way we can...  The Dragon it´s the representation of all the divinity powers in earth.


Cheers everybody!!
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Nighthawk on July 06, 2007, 07:55:50 pm
As a member i can say that i found it very interesting, and pretty nice way to lear what we want and in the way we can...  The Dragon it´s the representation of all the divinity powers in earth.
You're a member of Dragon Rouge?
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Thagirion on July 07, 2007, 05:30:18 pm
Kind of... No one very active... But i´m there...
Many people thing that it should be a secret... But, well, i don´t find it why, the knowledge must be open, and must be free.


Cheers!!
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Markus on July 07, 2007, 07:37:23 pm
Hey Thagirion,

DR has an initiatory system, right? Well, probably the idea behind that is that in some things one step should be taken after the other, and that some things cannot be learnt from books but only from personal experience. And since such experiences may be very personal I think it should be respected if someone decides to keep some of that information to a smaller circle. I'm pretty sure that those who seek such information will still be able to find it.

Cheers!

Markus
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Lucy on July 07, 2007, 09:31:46 pm
I think if a member wants to keep that secret, then he or she has a good reason to do that. :)
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Markus on July 07, 2007, 09:37:53 pm
Hey Lucy,

I think Thagirion is talking more about the contents of the DR system. But the same is valid there: The folks at DR will have some reason not to tell the public everything, even it's just that they don't want to be seen as loonies.  :insane:

Cheers!

Markus
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Persephone on July 10, 2007, 03:00:40 pm
About the the things which are hidden to extensive public sector...
I was wondering about it and I guess it's because person unknowing of ancestral knowless and practics is not completely ready for something more sophisticated and serious.

I should tell example of another kind - it is the same like if boy in his childhood was taught how to use a sword... first he was given an wooden imitation without sharp edges and after some practises he got a real sword. Because if he was given right a real sharp sword and didn't know how to treat with it, he could hurt (or kill) himself or other people...

I guess that they have the same reason. Because if someone is not ready and addapted to some practises he could hurt himself or another one... Sometimes could be mind more dangerous than action ...

That's my own opinion but it could be wrong of course  ???
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Nighthawk on July 12, 2007, 02:15:20 pm
That's my own opinion but it could be wrong of course  ???
I'm guessing it's something in the lines of that...

Personally, I couldn't take the orgasmic knowledge they'd have in store for me... I have trouble swallowing lighter stuff. I'd keep going 'Yeah... but why? Why this? And why this?'. Then they'd explain, and I'd go: 'Yeah... but why?'. Then they'd knock me over the head and throw me into the nearest trashcan.


...


Not that stuff like that ever happened to me.


...


No...
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Markus on July 12, 2007, 02:35:14 pm
Heya Hawk,

Not that stuff like that ever happened to me.


Why not?

Cheers!

Markus
Title: Re: About Dragon Rouge...
Post by: Lucy on July 12, 2007, 02:36:13 pm
:roll: