NTSMS - Non Therion Society Members Society
Main Forum => Enter the voids of the OT-forum => Topic started by: Ereshkigal on November 02, 2004, 12:45:47 am
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Hello everyone! I don´t mean to steal this topic from the official Therion website :unsure: , but I thought it would be cool if we could discuss it here with you all NTSMS B) ...well anyways....how about some Lucid Dreaming?
Before Therion I really had no idea that this was something that had a name and could be classified as a unique experience. In my case, before I even knew this existed I had dreams where I knew that I was dreaming! This dreams were not nightmares, they were normal dreams, some even very stupid, but in the dream I knew it was all a dream. I would like to get the most out of this experiences and know more about this. Apparently, with the right ways this can be achieved if we wanted too. I wanna hear some thoughts about this or ideas. What is your opinion? what is your experience as little as you think it was? I think that in us humans there is an enourmous power that is hidden and this is only a bit of what we could be capable to do!!! :)
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Hi Ereshkigal,
strange, just yesterday I have started a dream topic in the protected forum and suggested to keep an online diary there, and while you wrote this thread I have made my first entry.
I find LD extremely interesting and knew about it before I knew Therion. Unfortunately I´ve never had spontaneous LD, even with practice I never made it. Anyway, I like to keep a dream diary, because it improves my dream memory, and that alone is already interesting.
Perhaps you want to join our online dream diary in the protected forum? I think that´s a perfect place for such a topic.
Beside that we can try to gather some reality check methods here.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Ereshkigal!
Really strange! Only a coincidence? Or some astral conjunction (what do you think about this, Markus?).
Ereshkigal, if you want, you can join our virtual dream diary (I wish your problems with password will be soon solved).
See you!
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Hi there,
Really strange! Only a coincidence? Or some astral conjunction (what do you think about this, Markus?).
Ereshkigal, if you want, you can join our virtual dream diary (I wish your problems with password will be soon solved).
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you know me... I vote for "mere coincidence". I mean, LD is a natural Therion topic which just pops up once in a while, so it´s not too surprising when two of us open dream-related topics simultaneously. But hey, if it helps to draw people to our dream diary I´ll claim anything you want to hear! :lol:
Ereshkigal, what problems do you have with the protected forum? Perhaps it can be fixed by PM to Manolo, Luthien or me.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi there,
you know me... I vote for "mere coincidence". I mean, LD is a natural Therion topic which just pops up once in a while, so it´s not too surprising when two of us open dream-related topics simultaneously. But hey, if it helps to draw people to our dream diary I´ll claim anything you want to hear! :lol:
Ereshkigal, what problems do you have with the protected forum? Perhaps it can be fixed by PM to Manolo, Luthien or me.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Markus!
I want hear nothing... I just signaled a strange coincidence. I'm very sceptical about "astral conjunctions" and all this stuff... I was only jocking! But... ey! Is really a great coincidence! :D
PS. Ereshkigal has sent me a PM... but I don't know which is the problem. I wish Manolo would be more helpful than me :(
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Hi there,
something about achieving LD: Some people have them spontaneously, some even frequently. Some can achieve them by practicing, but I am the living proof that it's not always easy for everyone. (I have been experimenting several times but never made it so far.) So what I know about inducing LD is from books and the web. Apparently it has worked worked for others but I can't confirm it from personal experience yet.
The first step is to improve your dream memory. Unless you remember a longer sequence every night or even two or more dreams you don't have great chances to become lucid. A dream diary can help here - we've started ours, and I hope I'll be able to post a dream there every night. I have one for tonight at least, and in case I don't remember anything I still have some older dreams in my diary I could share.
Another common technique are reality checks. The basic idea is that certain things work different in dreams than in waking life. If you perform checks for these effects often enough they are supposed to become second nature, so you will sooner or later perform these checks in adream, too.
Good times for a reality check are:
- regularly (for instance every hour)
- whenever something seems strange or unusual to you
- triggered by random events (for instance every time you see a clock, every time you have to do with water,...)
This much for now. I`ll post some typical checks later.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hello everyone!!!
I just started improving my dream memory. I haven´t got a chance to get a diary but now that u mention there is one in the protected forum I shall use it! But I don´t know what the hell is going on with my password! At my office computer I could enter yesterday but at night when I tried to enter here at home (I´m on vacation today :P ) I couldn´t! Anyways... that is driving me crazy! :angry: Sorry for the offtopic...but going back to the real topic...Las two nights have been very interesting for me, before I went to bed I told myself: "I must remember my dreams..." (several times), and as stupid as it may sound it worked! only last night I remember 3 different dreams I had! I´m kinda embarrassed to say them :mellow: I think this is the first step into achieving LD, so for now I will focus in my dream memory and keeping my diary.
This whole dream thing is quite amazing! Besides LD there are so many things I still don´t understand and that have happened to me...but I´ll post it later :D
For now I better go and check what is going on with my password :angry:
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Hi Ereshkigal,
wow! I'm quite happy when I remember one dream per night in some detail and without much loss of the plot. I can't even dream ;) of three dreams a night. But I made the same experience: When I concern myself with my dreams my dream memory gets better.
I've been keeping a regular dream diary several times now, I always quit again for some reason. :( It's a little booklet, and I've got a pen that I don't use for anything else. Both lie beside my bed at night, so I can write down my notes as the very first thing in the morning. As long as at least one of you is interested I will post my dreams here the following evening, just before bedtime. I hope that little project will help all of us.
You should try to type your password in a simple text editor and see if the right word comes out... perhaps there's something wrong with your keyboard? With this little test you can find out. Also you could try to install a different browser at home, either a different version or a completely different program - it might be the fault of your browser, too.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi all!
Nice topic, I have had some very unusual dreams in my time (not necessarily lucid though!). I'll keep an eye on this topic, as although I may not have much to contribute about lucidity, I find the whole topic of dreams extremely interesting.
Ereshkigal, you are so right about the influence that you can impose upon your subconscious mind simply by telling yourself that YOU WILL remember. This does not sound at all stupid to me, sounds like you naturally have the right attitude. :)
Markus, maybe you should try Ereshkigal's technique? If you tell yourself enough times with confidence that you will achieve lucidity, you could convince your sub-conscious mind that this is the case. A kind of simpler method of your reality check in a way, aimed at convincing yourself of your ability to succeed in this.
I get the impression that you are extremely knowledgable with a very logical and scientific nature - and maybe it is this very nature that precludes you from quite achieving Lucidity? As there is no scientific structure behind it, maybe subconsciously therefore you cannot quite accept it and may block that final step?
...Sorry if I'm way out, it's just me rambling... I won't pretend I'm any kind of expert! :D
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Hi Sirius,
if it was that simple for me! I have tried that technique already without success. I have absolutely no problem with the idea of LD - it has nothing unscientific about it. Actually a typical scientific habit - don´t believe your eyes, question everything - should help to induce them. Alas! :(
But who knows, with the aid of this forum I might make it. In that case I´ll sacrifice a bull to the great goddess Notessomes, or a goat. Or a rabbit, or at least of bowl of Muesli!
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi folks,
here are the reality checks I have found:
- Reading. Read something, look away, read it again. If the text has changed, you´re dreaming. (Beware of monitors, electronic paper and the like! :D) My favourite, because it can be done inconspicously.
- Spinning. Spin around your axis fast and stop suddenly. If your world keeps turning for a while, you´re dreaming.
- Jumping. Jump into the air. If you slowly float back, you´re dreaming.
The following two are not exactly reality checks, but they can be useful to detect that something is strange:
- Light switches. In dreams it´s hard to siwtch on the light, so if you notice any strange behaviour (light switch or bulb broken, dim bulb etc.) this might mean that you're dreaming - or that the bulb in fact IS broken. Perform a reality check.
- Discontinuities. Dream plots tend to be discontinuous. So check your memory: How did you get here? What did you do before? Try to trace your day back as far as possible. If there are any gaps, you might be dreaming. Or drunk. ;) Perform a reality check.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi !
Well it is a very interesting topic and I will try to remember my dreams in order to put them in the protected forum...
I would like to ask something that is a little off topic...it is about dreams but not lucid dreams... :huh:
2 years ago, I made 2 or three times the same dream (I made them during the same month): I'm at home, I'm upstairs near a kind of balcony and I'm looking downstairs and suddenly I fall over the balcony. when I should hit the ground, I wake up. (and I had really the impression that I was falling !!)
Can anyone tell me the meaning of this dream ?
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Hi Tzar-O,
this is not all off-topic, I would say.
Can anyone tell me the meaning of this dream ?
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Only you can. It depends on your situation at the time of the dream. Did the balcony remind you of any real building? What does a balcony symbolize for you? Do you have fear of heights, perhaps? Did you have any other fears or sorrows at that time? When you think about such questions, usually you get close to a good interpretation of the dream.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi !
Well it is a very interesting topic and I will try to remember my dreams in order to put them in the protected forum...
I would like to ask something that is a little off topic...it is about dreams but not lucid dreams... :huh:
2 years ago, I made 2 or three times the same dream (I made them during the same month): I'm at home, I'm upstairs near a kind of balcony and I'm looking downstairs and suddenly I fall over the balcony. when I should hit the ground, I wake up. (and I had really the impression that I was falling !!)
Can anyone tell me the meaning of this dream ?
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Yes! the first step before experiencing with LD is to remember your dreams. I mean how could I know that I am dreaming if I cannot remember any of my dreams. B/fore going to bed tell yourself you want to remember your dream. Sometimes you might wake up and remember it and I know it is very unlikely to come to the forum and at 2 am write your dream, so keep a diary very close and post it in the forum during day, if u don´t use the diary by the time you get up you might have forgotten your whole dream!
I agree with Markus in regards to your dream. I think it all has to do with what the objects in your dream simbolize for you or the place around you. Also what was going on in your life at that time. I can only tell you that the falling part is very scary! I´ve felt it is not fun at all!
Cool! I hope we can all keep on helping e/others and achieve some really cool experiences! :lol:
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Hi folks,
here are the reality checks I have found:
- Reading. Read something, look away, read it again. If the text has changed, you´re dreaming. (Beware of monitors, electronic paper and the like! :D) My favourite, because it can be done inconspicously.
- Spinning. Spin around your axis fast and stop suddenly. If your world keeps turning for a while, you´re dreaming.
- Jumping. Jump into the air. If you slowly float back, you´re dreaming.
The following two are not exactly reality checks, but they can be useful to detect that something is strange:
- Light switches. In dreams it´s hard to siwtch on the light, so if you notice any strange behaviour (light switch or bulb broken, dim bulb etc.) this might mean that you're dreaming - or that the bulb in fact IS broken. Perform a reality check.
- Discontinuities. Dream plots tend to be discontinuous. So check your memory: How did you get here? What did you do before? Try to trace your day back as far as possible. If there are any gaps, you might be dreaming. Or drunk. ;) Perform a reality check.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hey Markus! Try this site....it is very interactive and fun. I found some reality checks here too for you and for everyone else!
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pasquale/TTM/3/index.html (http://www.xs4all.nl/~pasquale/TTM/3/index.html)
1. Click on reality check...
2. Then in the paragraph at your right click on the green letters that say "reality test".
In the window with the eye what seems to be a room will appear and it will say: "Is this a dream?", "Click here"....and from there it is very fun. :D
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Hi there!
About "reality checks"... I think can be no useful, almost for me: is the truth that I dream sometimes that I don't know if I am in a dream or in the reality, but the "reality checks" I do in a dream are so strange as they have to be: is a dream! When in reality, I never ask myself for the reality or not. Summarazing: I only ask for the reality of things in a dream and, when I'm dreaming, any check is not useful.
I don't know if I've expressed clear... :P
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Hi there!
About "reality checks"... I think can be no useful, almost for me: is the truth that I dream sometimes that I don't know if I am in a dream or in the reality, but the "reality checks" I do in a dream are so strange as they have to be: is a dream! When in reality, I never ask myself for the reality or not. Summarazing: I only ask for the reality of things in a dream and, when I'm dreaming, any check is not useful.
I don't know if I've expressed clear... :P
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When you say that the reality checks are very strangre then I guess they really do work for you because the thing is that: that is what reality checks are for, if what in reality turns out to be some weird thing when you are dreaming then you are dreaming!....well I'm not sure if I understand quite clearly your point.
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Hi Luthien,
if you only question the reality of things in your dreams you´re very close to lucidity. All you need to do is to remember: When you wonder whether you´re dreaming - you are. :P
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Markus!
Your suggestions for reality checks are extremely interesting, I like the thinking behind them, maybe I will try them for myself. Good luck in your own quest!
As for dreams, I remembered last night's dream (hope you don't mind me posting it here):
Background: (it's weird how my dreams all have false histories which are instinctively real to me within the dream. Sometimes these innate histories are quite deep - not last night, however)
I was on a speeding train. There was a mysterious dude hunting me down. (Reasons unknown). I knew I was in a particular carriage and he was approaching the door to this carriage.
The dream started with me seeing through the eyes of the mysterious dude, opening the carriage door hunting for my real self, expecting to see me sat at a table there. But surprisingly I was not there.
My viewpoint then panned out from the dude's eyes, up through the carriage roof, and I could see that I was lying hidden against the rooftop, wind rushing in my face (I experienced the sensations of lying atop a speeding train for quite some time)...
Next thing it cut to a room with a flavour of ageing ancient wood. I was seeing through my own eyes, looking at the mysterious dude, he was going to take my life. He raised an historic looking rifle to my head, I simply looked at him. He pulled the trigger, the mechanism clicked, but there was no bullet. I continued to look at him and he simply left. End of dream.
The memorable aspects were:
1) The feeling of the wind upon me on the roof of the train (even though at that point I was not within myself, so to speak)
2) The old wood of the building in the room. It was not rotten or anything, it just emanated this powerful feeling of history and ancientness (if that's a word!)
3) It felt like adventure and excitement rather than any fear
Sorry for such a long post :P , but I am certain that this dream remained so vivid as a direct result of reading this topic last night! :D
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Hi Sirius,
thanks a lot for sharing that vivid and fascinating dream!
Have you seen our common dream diary in the protected forum already?
I was just about to write that I had never experienced anything similar before, but that would be wrong: Several years ago, when I still lived with my parents, I had quite a strange dream. In reality, my father came into my room to wake me up. In my dream I saw the scene, including myself, from the foot end of my bed. That´s not exactly the same, because I didn´t see myself through the eyes of another, but the essential point is: I saw myself from outside my body. I don´t count it as an OOBE, though, it was just a dream that absorbed some elements from my real surrounding.
Cheers!
Markus
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Hi Markus,
The great goddess Notessomes does not smile favour upon me at the moment, so unfortunately I do not have access to the protected forum. :(
I personally do not think I have ever experienced OOBE in its truest sense. I certainly felt something approaching it a few years ago whilst experimenting with deep relaxation techniques, but last night's dream was most assuredly just a dream.
More entertaining to me than any of the content was the fact that you guys made me remember it!!
I did not make any conscious effort to remember my dreams, but I am certain that if I hadn't read the posts by yourself and Ereshkigal I would have awoken none the wiser.
...So Thanks! :D
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Not sure if it would count as lucid dreaming but... Well it is quite interesting for me. I have had several dreams, over courses of weeks, you could call the episodes in a plot. I know it is a dream to so, I have control over the dream, when I wake up. The next time a dream, it continues on from that point. Like a story. This dream, is quite fun... In the dream I am a vampiric sorta person, it is a post-apopcalyptic world, and each dream. I seem to be getting closer and closer to finding something out, and so I in my sleep try and figure out what exactly it is. But so far no luck, but my mind has conjured up various characters, that have appeared in the dream. Some quite life-like. All in all, I look forward to the dreams...
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Honestly it is the first time that I hear about your kind of countrol on your dream...it is very interesting :)
hehe I'm not sure to understand everything, can you explain how you can have this countrol on your dreams ? :lol: and a thing is strang too ..most of the time, the story of the dreams happened in a world that seems real (not a science-fiction world)...it would be cool to make dreams like yours :)
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Well not quite sure how to describe it, best way would be a sleeping version of a day-dream. My mind is consciouss but I am asleep, and the dreams are conjured up, but since my brain is still quite active. I know it is a dream and so I "play" through the events of the dream. As for the world, I think it is also like the day-dreaming, my mind conjures up a interesting world. I have had dreams like that in real world scenarios, for instance, I have had dreams where. I am merc. in Siberia, quite interesting...
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I had two strange dreams when I was little. I'll never forget them.
The first one: My cousin and I were going to my grandma and 2 brothers
of my friend arrived with a car. They were going in the same direction.
And before my cousin and I get into the car I told him that I am dreaming, and I
think that he didn't believe me so we shake our hands and lay a bet.
The second dream (not soon after first one): I was in center of my town and when I was returning
to my neighbourhood there was nothing, the rest of the city was destroyed (in ruins), and I
knew that I am dreaming so I tried to wake up becouse it was horrible dream.
So trow myself into the ground to wake up. I don't remember what happend after that.
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1 month ago I was reading Lucid Dreaming topic at Therion Society and there were
some links. And I started to read how to achieve a lucid dream.
There I read that first step is to try to remember your dreams. That you should have a paper and a pen near your bed to write your dream when you wake up.
And that should be the first thing to do when you wake up. And also you
shouldn't move, you should try to stay in same position to try to remember your dream, to tell your self what was I dreamnig. And when you remember one thing that you should try to remember what was before that and before that
and so on. It worked for me. I was redaing a lot of lucid dreamning before I got to bed and that night I rememberd 3 dreams.
I woke up at the middle of the night and I wrote that dream. Before I woke up in the morning I had 2 dreams more.
Maybe I had one dream, maybe two, I don't remember now. Do you know when I allways remember my dreams.
When I woke up in the morning and then sleep one hour more. This morning I woke up at 10:00 and fell a sleep. Then I woke up
at the 11:00 and I had a dream. I remembered everything when I woke up but I didn't wrote anything so it is fading away.
How do you enter in that part of the forum that needs a password. What is password? What do I need to do?
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How do you enter in that part of the forum that needs a password. What is password? What do I need to do?
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I think someone has said it to you... you have to proove you're not a TS doubleagent and you are loyal to NTSMS. Imagination!
btw... the final part of your signature is very suspicious... <_<
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If I am a doubleagent I would not put that I am Therion Society Member in my signature.
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I have never lived that in 21 years. In all my dreams i'me always convinced it is reality...
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Yeah, it is hard to achive LD.
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Hey i didn't read all but if maybe someone wants i can bring you the same TS topic entering as a spy !!! :ph34r:
For NTSMS !!!! :angry:
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HI folk ! this topic is great ! :wub:
i dream every night and always remember...sometimes i dream five times /night..ussually mares !
BUT very often -believe or not my dreams are somekind of prophecys!! they come true !
and even when i'm awake i've got some strange pictures or voices in my head and later that day they come true...
is it normal ? :huh:
P.S i think explanations of dreams can find only a dreamer himself !! what it says in books about it - is never correct !!
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By the powers granted by the unspeakable forces of Beyond I shall insolently revive this topic!
ARISE! wooooooooooooooosh -strong winds, thunder- truuuuuuuououooooooooommmmm! -(?)
Long ago I tried to achieve LD, but it entailed sleep problems for me and so found myself quite tired during the next morning (couldnt study or work in that condition). So I just gave it up. Still, is an experience I would really like to go trough -in an inducted/sistematic way-.
My question is, have you fellows made some progress since this topic was created? What about sharing what things worked out for you in your paths?
Thanks!